Monday, October 20, 2008

Green Smoke Screen

A government report that found old-fashioned reusable (cloth) diapers damage the environment more than disposables has been hushed up because UK ministers are embarrassed by its findings.

Blow To Image Of ‘Green’ Reusable Diaper

So much for the loony greenies caring about our environment, eh?


jan said...

I knew it!!! The detergent, the water, the energy to clean them, more diaper rash medicine, on and on. Spreading guilt and inconvenience seems to be more important than truth.

cube said...

jan: I remember hearing greenies blabbing about how they would never use a disposable diaper... until they had a child, that is.

Ha! I never bought into the washable diaper BS either.

Leslie Johnson said...

I wore cloth diapers when I was a kid, but I think it was only because someone bought my mom a gift certificate for a year of diaper service. They give you a set of new diapers and you have special bags that you put the dirty ones in and they come and pick up the dirty ones and leave clean ones. You only get YOUR clean diapers back. My sister wore cloth diapers too, but I dont think we got the service. I remember my mom had cleaned the diapers out by letting them soak in the toilet before she put them in the washing machine. I always used to walk in there and go to the bathroom and flush them down the toilet....I was 4. hahaha

But I guess when I have a kid I wont use cloth diapers. I will just make my own diapers out of old cerial boxes, or leaves. =)

Brooke said...

I wouldn't care if disposables were lighting the world on fire; there's no way I'd use cloth diapers.

I tried; it was foul beyond measure.

Denitsa said...

I wouldn't use cloth pampers neither, however I find this study questionable. I mean, the CO2 footprint isn't the complete picture-there are other green effect gases and there is the smell.

The problem with disposables is that they should be put somewhere to rot for around hundred of years. Or you should burn them on very very high temperature and make sure you take care of all the toxic gases. So, it's not about CO2, it's about the place and time they'll take to clear out.

That's why for me this study shows only that the method of calculating the damage to Nature isn't very good.

Steve Harkonnen said...

I can never forget the day that I accidentally tipped over the diaper bucket for my son.

The very next day we switched to disposables.

WomanHonorThyself said...

ha this is a good one Cube!!:)

Chunks of Reality said...

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Jedi Master Daryl said...

It goes PRIDE, then environment! LOL!

So you are in England? Cool!

I was just in Office Depot and noticed their rolls of 100% recycled toilet paper. Which just stikes me as gross. Imagining what their ads would look like:

Guaranteed that every sheet contains real flecks of recycled human crap!

Chuck said...

My oldest is 15 and this waas suspected when he was a baby. We used disposable, I wasn't going to wash diapers.

Pasadena Closet Conservative said...

Great. I'll be ready for Depends when the time comes, and I'll have zero guilt feelings about it!

nanc said...

disposables are great - when they say "up to 24 pounds" they're not too far off - they hold about 22.5 pounds of refuse!

cube - do you remember a few years back when the 10 or 11 year old insulated a room with disposables? the "r" factor was greater than any insulation on the market.

commoncents said...

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Anonymous said...


The problem with the "Greens", formerly known as REDS, is they seem to think they have no need to craft interesting bull crap! People like interesting bullcrap!

I'll trust the Farmers Almanac any day before I listen to algore. The point being: the climate is not warming, doesn't appear to be cooling too much (thank God, as that is the much greater calamity) and cloth diapers are a anachronistic nightmare.

As to the "eternity in a landfill" canard; read up on polymers and you'll find that once again the common "wisdom" is largely composed of that which fills the diapers!

And Mrs. Queequeg can attest to the fact that I changed hundreds of dippers on my rascals. There is no going back!!!

On another note; this is what we can expect of the MSM / Obooboo marriage when it comes to inconvenient consequences/results of halfassed policies and incompetence and no adversarial press to hold them accountable. Just like Europe!


Bikran said...

my mom always used cloth diapers when i was kid.But its very uncomfortable .

Denitsa said...

Anonymous, the climate is warming, no matter if you like it or not or if you agree with it or not. It's very easy to see that it's warming in the temperate climate zone where the difference is the most obvious. Or if you like it more, in my country, the climate is very weird in the recent few years. So, I don't see how anyone could argue with that. Argue with the measure we do or don't take, but not with the facts.

Jen said...

They're still cheaper! That's the only reason I did them. That and the (probably weird) sense of satisfaction you get from washing and folding them and being ready for anything...

Anonymous said...


Reiterating half truths and rumors does not turn them into facts. If the climate is in fact warming, (and this is not certain given the motives of many of those advocating this position), there is no factual preponderence to conclude it is due to human activities.

Witness the paucity of sun spots. Fewest than at any time in the last 300 years.

And: The lowest recorded velocity of solar wind in 50 years! This is inarguable.

Temperature records go back only to the mid 1800's and these are even questionable. Seen some glaciers receding over the last few years? Maybe, maybe not.

I live in a temperate region,( pretty vast geolical "ZONE" to generalize!) and build structures on the coast. We have not had to increase our minimum mean high tide base foundation for the 18 years I have been at it and for how long before that???

Sorry, but apocryphal nightmares and hearsay do not a global crisis make.

The point about the solar activity is two fold: the solar activity we've witnessed over the last 12 -15 years is rapidly diminished such that both sunspots and solar wind are at record lows. This dovetails with the record glacier growth we are witnessing now in Greenland, Alaska and Antartica among others.

In conclusion, the fullness of time and perspective may instruct us that we witnessed a brief Warming due to increased solar output. The evidence today suggests we have far more to fear from a dramatic cooling due to reduced solar activity. As borne of the recent, and unequivocal, evidence of solar "Calming".

In no case does this mean we should be infrugal, wasteful, or inconsiderate to those with whom we share this rock. But let's keep the debate strenuously free of hysterics, psuedo science B.S. or political manipulation to create the new socialist utopia.

Extrapolating personal experience and recollection to a global calamity doesn't equate to scientific irrefutability. Nor does comparing those who are skeptical to holocaust denyers


Caz said...

Nothing new about the nappy "debate", it has long been known that it's about even, that is, when all resources and environmental impacts are considered, disposables are definitely no worse, and might be marginally better than using cloth nappies. You have to take into account all aspects, not just emissions. Water, detergent (pollution), etc.

This has been known for a couple of decades.

It's the same as with anything: there are trade-offs for everything that environmentalists claim are "good" - they conveniently leave out the full picture.

Eg, lets all eat organic food, hey? Bang goes two thirds of the food supply, and we'll need to at least triple the amount of land being used for supplying the world's foods. Oh, and bugger anyone in developing countries, because they won't be able to afford to buy organic foods, ever!

Trade offs.

Never forget to consider the trade offs.

Many environmental things are just Western middle-class indulgence, which damage the environment.

Denitsa said...

Anonymous, it's not all about the Sun even if it's very comfy to think it is.

The emissions of CO2 are up to unprecedented levels. Is this due to the Sun? Not at all. Or not only if we have to be precise.

As for the pseudo-science - science is far from creating a complete climate model on the system Earth-Sun or even only on the Earth herself. So, please spare me the drama.

Are you denying we're having an effect on our Planet? Are you denying that we're harming her? Are you denying that we're cutting the forests and emitting every day more and more?
I doubt you are. Nobody is. So how much more do you think she can take? It's a limited space and limited system. At some point, there comes a phase transition. And phase transitions and complicated living organisms don't go too well together.Usually the first die off.

I know that most of the people who deny Global Warming are doing it on political basis. Which is stupid.Ideology is an absolute nonsense when you discuss reality.

The climate is changing and I'm not generalising my opinion. I'm just giving an example with my experience. Guess what, our sea has not raised its level too. But the weather has nothing to do with what it was 5 or 10 years ago. It has changed a lot. I wouldn't say for worst. As Putin put it-warming is good for us.

The point is that we're having bigger and bigger effect on the Earth and we don't know when the breaking point will come. So the only rational thing to do is to plan carefully ahead and to pollute as little as possible-which includes CO2 and other greenhouse gases.
And the best part of this is that it's good for us too. Just think about Beijing Olympic games and the sky we never saw. Do you want this to happen everywhere? Because this is the future!

And before arguing, right now, China is the biggest exporter and producer on the world. It is damaging its environment for all of us together. Suppose China put strict measures on the industry-where do you think the nice, dirty factories will go? Back home. And then, they'll HAVE to limit the pollution. So isn't it little hypocritical to say we're all right with them polluting foreign soil, but not our own?

A very good report on emissions:

Um, Caz, only people in USA believe that the world is feeding on GM food. Most of us eat organic because it's cheaper. Sure, that is changing, but what you're saying is simply not true. Beside, organic food is about YOUR health. Green stuff are about the PLANET's health.

Caz said...

Denitsa - you should educate yourself before going off on long or short rants.

What has GM produce got to do with my comments? If you believe that the only alternative to "organic" food is GM food then you are unforgivably ignorant. (How do you think food production has quadrupled over the last 50 years or so, yet land use for food production is a fraction of what it used to be?)

Let me offer you another small, scientific tip: the weather and the climate are not interchangeable concepts. We know a tiny bit about the weather and very an even tinier bit about climate (hence why all those handy-dandy computer models are a total crock).

The natural climate of the earth is covered in ice, roughly 18 to 20 thousand years of ice age, interrupted by a few thousand years of balmy weather.

Guess what sunshine? The climate on earth has always changed, with or without humans.

More people die from cold than a balmy climate. Be grateful it's warming up, not cooling down.

Next time you want to discuss reality, take a course in scientific evidence 101 first, and secondarily, have a clue what you're talking about. Otherwise you're just blowing it out your arse. There's nothing less compelling than an ignorant person ranting in public.

Denitsa said...

Caz, why so rude, dear? I wrote a brutal response, but then I saw you're a woman, so, it didn't quite fit :)

Whatever, I keep my arse personal, so please don't involve it. You're free to do whatever you please with yours, but mine isn't your business.

As for the courses-erm, we, here, don't have scientific evidences 01, whatever that is, we prefer to go for the science instead. So thank you, studied, study, will study, no need of advice there.

And since you obviously have a problem with scales, especially the time scale, there's no much use of arguments on the climate of the Earth. Just notice how I didn't make a statement on the climate, besides that it's more complicated to count only on one factor-the Sun and that is currently changing. I emphasised on the results of our action here on Earth. Those that are unquestionable. So,I think you're kind of over-reacting on something I didn't even say. I don't care about speculations, neither for ideologies. The levels of greenhouse gases is measurable and measured. As well as the emissions of our dear existence. As well as the pollution of the air and of the water. As well as many more interesting numbers, especially interesting are those representing temperatures. What you make of those numbers is up to you, but I know what they are to me and whether you agree with me or not doesn't really matter. And what's even better, it doesn't matter to the flow of global events. We can only chose to do something or do nothing. And bear the consequences.

And for being grateful it's warming...erm, yeah. Tell that to the people who are lucky enough to be on the way of the next "disaster". As for the moment-the warmer it is, the less money on heating, the more money on fun for me.

On GMs and organic food-ok, this could be my mistake, or more likely a language mistake. I don't know what exactly "organic" mean in the case, so apologies for that-my reaction was misdirected.
Still, I'd like to point out that we're mostly over-producing food now, so while I don't mind the technical support, it's very questionable what part of the chemical support is needed to have a sustainable agriculture (which won't say we shouldn't use any chemicals, just that we're far from the optimal "health vs. production" use) . Which may or may not relate to what you said.

As for me being ignorant-that I am not. Just little arrogant, sometimes.

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